Lilia Shibanova: “Vladimir Vladimirovich, you are sick with spy mania! They and us

The well-known Russian non-profit organization Golos, which specializes in monitoring elections, is closely associated with a number of European and American funds funded by state structures of the EU member states, as well as the United States, by the NTV channel in the investigative film “Another Voice”. It should be noted that the Golos association was recognized by the Russian Ministry of Justice as an NPO as a “foreign agent” and, after a series of court decisions, was liquidated at the end of 2016. However, the activists of the organization and its leadership continued to function, including significantly increased contacts with emissaries of foreign funds and government structures.

The NTV film contains the statements of Stanislav Andreychuk, member of the council of the "Voice" movement, which he voiced within the walls of the European Parliament. Andreichuk, who is a member of the leadership of Golos, has bluntly stated that he does not consider the upcoming presidential elections in Russia to be either fair or fair. And they, in his opinion, cannot even be called elections. A rather remarkable position as a member of the board of an organization that positions itself as an objective and impartial observer of the electoral process. Experts point out that the passages about "dishonest" elections a month before they were actually held and at the very beginning of the active phase of the election campaign testify to the professional failure of Golos, which their European curators and sponsors refuse to recognize.

Journalists also pay attention to the fact that Lilia Shibanova flew to Moscow from Lithuania just a few days before the presidential elections.

It should be noted that the Golos association did not send any of its officially accredited observers to the polling stations. Nevertheless, Golos is actively training some "alternative" observers who will not be physically present at the polling stations. Golos is going to organize online surveillance, for which about seven thousand volunteers will monitor the picture from webcams installed at the PECs. Not having, however, official status and not being present.

Experts point out that the techniques that their Western curators teach Golos representatives are to fix - or create the appearance of fixing - violations at several precinct election commissions. Then Golos will prepare to challenge the election results in a particular region. At the same time, having recognized the elections as rigged in a particular region, it will then be possible to raise (at least in the Western media space) the question of their recognition as illegitimate in the whole country.

At the same time, one of the approaches that can be used by Golos for the needs of its campaign to discredit the presidential elections is the so-called Sergei Shpilkin model, which is based on an analysis of deviations of election results from a "normal distribution", or Gaussian curve. Normal distribution, according to experts, is an abstract statistical model that should be applied with extreme caution to real processes, including in the electoral field. At the same time, when trying to use the Gaussian curve in application to the empirical results of elections, many factors are not taken into account, and above all, the unevenness of the statistical sample. If we apply the "Shpilkin model" to elections in the US or Europe, then there are even more such statistical anomalies ("peaks" or "outliers" in the language of statistics) than in Russia.

Journalists also point out that another Golos project, the Map of Violations, also ended in failure. Most of the violations introduced there are not. Thus, in particular, examples are given when Golos recorded as a violation the presence of representatives of the Ministry of Emergency Situations at the PEC. Or the inclusion in the database of violations of certain "recommendations" on voting in one of the Orenburg hospitals, and the authenticity of these "recommendations" is highly doubtful. Other cases in the Violations Map follow much the same pattern.

It is worth noting that in the previous presidential elections, the leadership of the "Voice" movement did not hide foreign funding. Co-chairman of the movement Grigory Melkonyants openly said that the organization is funded by the European Union and the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). As follows from the financial reports on the distribution of grants from the European Commission, over the past three years, "Voice" has received about half a million euros to carry out its activities. Then, however, representatives of the organization began to deny these facts. The NTV film contains a recording of a conversation between Melkonyants and an employee of the US Embassy in Russia, Kevin Covert, where they discuss further cooperation against the backdrop of inspections to which Golos was subjected after the adoption of the law on NCOs-"foreign agents". The film also includes footage of high-ranking members of the political section of the Canadian Embassy in Russia visiting the Golos office in Moscow.

In addition to undisclosed contacts with foreign diplomats, Golos representatives work in close coordination with Mikhail Khodorkovsky's Open Russia movement. Despite the fact that Golos founder Lilia Shibanova denies this interaction, the evidence suggests otherwise: for example, Golos regional activists Artyom Vazhenkov and David Kankiya are regional coordinators of Open Russia. At the same time, Golos activists participate in Navalny's events and even appear in his campaign videos. It is noteworthy that in the excerpt of a telephone conversation cited in the film, David Kankiya calls Russian inferior bastards during a conversation with his own father about his trip to the United States, which, by the way, was paid for by the American side.

After the adoption of the law on non-commercial organizations-"foreign agents" before the "Voice" was faced with the issue of obtaining funding. The film contains a recording of a conversation between Lilia Shibanova and a representative of the Norwegian Helsinki Committee, Marius Fossum, during which Shibanova discusses the financing of travel for Golos employees. At the same time, not being able to legally transfer money to Russia, the Golos management decided to involve their employees. So, in particular, the police officers detained the accountant of Golos Valentina Denisenko - a large sum in euros was confiscated from her, the origin and purpose of which she could not explain intelligibly.

The interest of Golos in Lithuania, where Lilia Shibanova also lives, is explained by the fact that many European funds and structures are concentrated in this country, which receive and distribute financial assistance both for the Russian non-systemic opposition and for such NGOs, as "Voice". First of all, we are talking about the organization of the EVAP - the European Platform for Democratic Elections, where Shibanova is a member of the coordinating council. The EVAP is funded by a number of European and American government institutions, including the Ministries of Foreign Affairs of Germany and Norway, USAID, the National Endowment for Democracy, the Soros Foundation and Khodorkovsky's Open Russia.

Shibanova L.

On April 25, in the Presnensky Court of Moscow, a process begins against the association of independent observers "GOLOS" on an administrative offense of Art. 19.34 of the Code of Administrative Offenses (violation of the procedure for the activities of a non-profit organization performing the functions of a foreign agent). GOLOS became the first NGO to be officially declared a "foreign agent" by the Ministry of Justice. Human rights activists were accused of receiving an international award to them. Andrei Sakharov "for promoting democratic values" (foreign funding) and drafting a new Electoral Code (political activities). “In order to promote the code, the association is forming public opinion through public coverage of the draft Electoral Code,” the website of the Ministry of Justice says. For refusing to register as a “foreign agent”, the court may fine GOLOS 500,000 rubles, and the executive director of the association, Lilia Shibanova, 300,000 rubles.

The main complaint is that we are not agents. An agent is a person who represents the interests of another country and performs certain tasks. This is the official wording, but in the everyday sense - this is generally a spy.

- And how many NGOs in Russia receive exclusively Russian money?

They do not have this money, Russian. It must be business money. All over the world it is business money.

- Khodorkovsky was in Russia with Free Russia.

Yes, there was Khodorkovsky. And there is the Potanin fund. But this is too little. Here in America the scale of taxes for business is rather rigid, and as soon as a certain level of income is exceeded, taxation increases sharply. And here a simple question arises: if I give extra profitable money to some fund, then I will know exactly where this money went, I will actually manage this money: I will see where it goes, I can enter the board of directors and I am a revered person and even get publicity as a person who is a donor? Or I will pay taxes to the state - and I will not know where my money went. In general, charity is a kind of fashion. Therefore, they are, this money.

- Is there no money for charity in Russia?

In fact, our business is ready. I personally know a lot of businessmen who are involved in charity, but Russian charity is to donate to churches, donate to children for an orphanage, donate to blind children... This is targeted assistance. This is a misunderstanding of the importance of the activity of the non-profit sector, which is a layer between the state and society, and this layer performs exactly the function of protecting the interests of citizens from the state and pushing the state to fulfill its functions.

They and us

The entire non-profit sector in Russia was created thanks to international funds. When Russia opened up, when Russia showed that it is a country that wants to follow a democratic path, the West rushed in and began to show everything.

- Really directly sincerely rushed?

Sincerely rushed, now sincerely rushed. It is always a pleasure for me to work with German, Swedish, Norwegian, American foundations. I have always admired their devotion, their desire to convey to us the best that they can, they are very open people. The path that Russia has taken is very difficult. We are not even accustomed to the very concept of “self-organization”. We have a very narrow individualism. We had a very good farewell to the next director of the German Naumann Foundation (Foundation of the Free Democratic Party of Germany. - E.M.). And he said a very good phrase: “When I went to Russia, I received information that Russians are very good-natured people, very hospitable, very responsive, very sociable, very comfortable with them, and they are very open. Leaving three years later, I can say that this is not true. The Russians are individualistic and quite aggressive. When you are on the street, in any room, anywhere you feel this aggression. And it's very uncomfortable."

Are the employees of the funds who continue to work with us offended by Russia, that now they should be called "agents"?

Well, of course. They are not just offended, they are shocked. Least of all they expected such a reaction to their activities in Russia. I think that any fund expects only gratitude because it brings money; because he conducts trainings; because he provides the country with such huge public assistance ... And in return he receives an "agent" ...

Churov and anti-Central Election Commission

You recently said that USAID (US Agency for International Development) was closed in Russia only because of GOLOS. Are you sure about this?

I think yes. The main claim against USAID was because of the funding of GOLOS, because USAID did not have projects that would cause such aggression from the authorities. Most of the USAID projects are a huge number of trainings for Russian officials, and these projects were directly related to government structures, with various ministries. And they also had a lot of charitable programs. The most expensive program is the NGO Resource Centers. They created and paid for the premises, brought a huge amount of equipment so that any non-profit organization that does not have an office could come and print something for free, use the library, use the conference room. And they had a very large program on AIDS. Maybe this also frightens someone, because the statistics for the country are terrible on AIDS, and, as always, they are secret. In our country, everything is in terrible secrets: both electoral fraud and the number of AIDS patients.

I never thought that we are trying to replace the functions of the Central Election Commission, since they are the organizers of the elections, and nothing else.

But they are also doing something else. Churov is not sitting there in vain.

Churov is in a special situation. After all, the law was changed specifically for Churov. Prior to this, the chairman of the Central Election Commission had to be a lawyer, and not less than a candidate of science. And Churov is a physicist, and not a candidate of science. Here is a recent meeting after the elections in Anapa, where Mitrokhin was doused with brilliant green and there were all sorts of scandals. Chairman of the Central Election Commission Churov openly says: “We will not deal with falsifications, we will deal with observers. Where do they get money for surveillance? That is, with this “we”, he considers himself to be among the cohort of people-siloviki who are now running around NGOs. At first, I tried to slip our reports to him at regular round tables. Then he threw this report across the table to me and said that “I don't read the reports of GOLOS. We laughed together: the Chukchi is not a reader, the Chukchi is a writer. When elections are held in Russia, the whole world reads the reports of GOLOS, and does not listen to what Churov said. Well, at least read it!

Money money money…

According to information on the GOLOS website, Russian citizens and Russian legal entities donated 20,420 rubles to GOLOS in 2013, and 86,424 rubles for the whole of 2012. It is impossible to exist on these donations. What will you do next?

We are, of course, faced with a dilemma. We did not run an advertising campaign. Now we need such a campaign.

- And who are you counting on? For ordinary citizens or still for legal entities ...

It is more interesting for us, of course, to receive small donations from ordinary citizens. Well, 500 rubles.

- This is how many such citizens should be in order to receive a sufficient amount for work?

When we started working with USAID, at first they gave us $300,000 a year, and then we supported 30 regions. And then, due to inflation and due to the fact that the volume of work that we began to do increased, we reached 500 thousand dollars a year. With this money, we maintained 40 regional branches, with offices, with equipment, with communications, with regular monthly events. I have now filed a declaration for the last two years, where there were just election campaigns, we received 2 million 850 thousand dollars.

- Is this the largest budget among Russian NGOs?

I think yes. Because GOLOS has a very serious structural regional base. Therefore, I think that no one could have such money. Now we are moving away from networking. We begin to work through volunteering, volunteering. But it's a pity to lose professionals, because volunteers are good, but we took our coordinators to all international elections: to Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Belarus. We are always perceived as observers on election day. In fact, GOLOS shows the election campaign very deeply, starting three or four months before the start of the actual campaign; we show how citizens are manipulated, the opinion of citizens, using a variety of technologies.

- But can't USAID finance you from abroad?

Well, how? Carry suitcases around the regions? In this way, only bombers can be financed. You can't finance a network organization with suitcases. I will not carry money in suitcases around the regions and distribute them to the elections. Well, that's funny.

FSB explains

- Does the FSB carry out explanatory work with you?

The FSB conducts explanatory work regularly in the regions. Regularly with each coordinator.

- How does this happen?

At first it was mild: they met, asked about their activities, gently advised: it’s not worth it, you understand that this is an organization that uses American money ... Now it’s much tougher.

- How hard is it?

We have been undergoing a tax audit for a year already, and we have submitted all agreements with observers to the tax office. And now every observer is called, as it is written, "for tax violations."

- What are the tax violations?

We usually paid observers 1,100 rubles each. 100 rubles - for the phone and 1 thousand - for work. It's not even for a job, it's a reimbursement, because he comes to our school for training for a month; he needs to eat for a day on the site; he needs to come to us to hand over all the materials; he needs to take a taxi at night ... When he is called to the tax office, he is put under pressure, he is required to confirm that he did not receive this money, that this signature in the statement on which he received is fictitious. This is a typical provocation. And I don't think I'm preparing alone. It doesn't matter to them that we will fight it off in court later. Whoever reads about the courts there, everyone will read that GOLOS is stealing money. That's what they need.

- Is it really possible to shut you down?

Very easy. I'm always surprised that they take so long with this.

- I think that it is calculated that you will simply “dissolve” yourself, there will be no money inside Russia.

They hoped that they would close USAID, which financed us mainly, and we would be left without money, since small grants would not get us out. And suddenly we were dispersed in full program and every Sunday somewhere we conduct observations at the elections. They didn't expect this at all. This is a completely volunteer thing. They do not understand that we have made some kind of modular observation, and now we have a lot of these volunteers. And from all the villages they call: “Will there be a “VOICE” with us?” We say: “You have three sites. What is your "VOICE"?

- They want it too.

They want. Everyone wants "VOICE" everywhere. And therefore, with such a demand, you just need to put yourself once for creativity and think about how to get money. Because we don’t really want to take money from candidates: it’s somehow unusual, we are used to the fact that we are independent and don’t take money from anyone. But we are already thinking about negotiating with candidates, signing an official agreement with them, conducting trainings for parties in order to raise money in this way. You have to break yourself. Asking for money is a psychological barrier, it's true.

- But you asked money from foreigners.

I didn't ask for them, I won them. These are completely different things. I write an application, I participate in the competition, I receive. But walking with an outstretched hand...

- You can either walk with an outstretched hand, or ...

Or shut down the organization.

- Or write "agent".

Well, this is unrealistic for us, this is the most unrealistic thing we can do. Because to deceive citizens that we are not defending fair elections, but are fulfilling the order of foreign special services, is the worst thing that any organization can do.

For the award - to court

We did not refuse the award. We received the award, we refused the money (7728 euros and 40 cents. - E.M.). We received the diploma, we were at the ceremony, we are very grateful. We simply understood what situation we were in and why the law was written. And as soon as the money goes to the association, they will immediately come for us.

“Now the case has gone to court. What are the chances that you will win this trial?

Legally, we should not lose this court case, because we did not receive the money (the money was in a transit account, we sent it back), we did not use it. The Ministry of Justice caved in under this law, and if even the Ministry of Justice could bend a political order of this level, then the courts will bend too. And since the GOLOS association has been chosen as the first victim, everything will be done to the maximum, all repressive methods will be used to intimidate everyone else. I think we will have to go to the Constitutional, if not to the European Court.

We are only required to write if we consider it to be a political activity.

- And the participation of citizens in the control over elections is not a political activity?

From my point of view, no, because it is civilian control.

From this civil control depends on which party will gain more votes in the elections. It depends on the course of the country.

No, it depends only on the purity of the count, and not on us.

Premium and unmanaged vertical

It seems to me that this is some kind of nonsense: an organization is awarded an international prize - no, to be glad for its own, that the award is given to a Russian organization, because it is considered an agent and dragged to court.

This is not a paradox, this is a disease, this is a disease of our current government. And the disease, in my opinion, personally Putin. Because spy mania, which apparently sits very deep in him, has become an epidemic. And this is the worst. Answering the question of Lukin (commissioner for human rights in the Russian Federation. - E.M.), what is happening, he says: this is a scheduled inspection by the prosecutor's office, and the prosecutor's office has the right to routine inspections of NGOs. But they don't have that functionality. The prosecutor's office, according to the law on the prosecutor's office, has the right to scheduled inspections only of state structures.

- And the Ministry of Justice?

The Ministry of Justice has the right to scheduled inspections, but not the prosecutor's office. The prosecutor's office only on denunciation. The prosecutor's office, which is supposed to monitor the implementation of the law, violates its own law, and Putin, being a lawyer, says aloud the phrase that a body that does not have the right to a scheduled inspection conducts scheduled inspections. In this situation, I get the impression that he is sick with spy mania, but at the same time he does not delve into the situation and does not control this situation: it rolls by itself, rolls in such a way that he can no longer influence it, because this is a collapse of the vertical, which he himself created. The machine of repression lives its own life, and he cannot stop it. He does not even receive real information about what is really happening, what is the real situation. Sometimes when I listen to his speeches, I understand that he lives in the Kremlin. When Putin said to install video cameras at all polling stations, we almost fell off our chairs in the office. In order to put video cameras everywhere in his own elections, one must very much believe that his elections will be personally honest. This is a civil act of the highest category! I nominated Putin for the GOLOS medal for fair elections, but for some reason our commission did not want to.

Treatment of the patient

- Do you think it is possible to cure Putin of this disease with a diagnosis of "spy mania"?

I think that the council (L. Shibanova - member of the Council under the President of the Russian Federation for the development of civil society and human rights. - E.M.) should try. Our advice is to invite Putin, not some of his executors, but Putin himself - and start talking directly to him: “Dear President, we are your advisers until (until you dispersed us), come on, answer these questions for us . Answer specifically, so that we already understand where all this information comes from (according to Putin, over the past four months, 28.3 billion rubles have been transferred to Russian NGOs from abroad. - E.M.)?” And I would first of all ask the dear president the question: what is the problem of the president personally in the fight against NGOs? Let him tell the council why he is so horrified by NGOs.

- And what do you think, what is his personal horror?

I think that he is based on the information that is presented to him. They really frighten him, and since the KGB past, and this spy mania sits there like a vaccine, it is easy to frighten him with the fact that all this opposition is fed by the West. And if the West did not give money, there would be no "orange" revolutions, people would love us passionately. And then they were paid, so they go to Bolotnaya, they stir up the people. And all this is stirred up by those who directly sit on grants. It seems to me that this is his personal obsession with the anti-Western doctrine that the West is the enemy, defend yourself who can. It feels like you need to have a psychological conversation with him.

- And personally, looking into Putin's eyes, are you ready to say that you, Vladimir Vladimirovich, are "sick with spy mania"?

Well, they usually don't talk like that to the sick. They speak to the sick more gently, they talk to the sick more delicately - you need to find words so that the person does not immediately immediately stand up in a defensive stance. Of course, I would be very happy to show Putin the videos that were filmed by his own video cameras. Let him look, just look, without comment. I'm sure he never saw them in person.

To change his point of view, not one-time conversations and not one-time phrases are needed. Well, I'll tell Putin: "Vladimir Vladimirovich, I think that you are sick with spy mania." Yes? And everyone tells him that I am the spy who organized all this for a lot of money, for billions ...

- Aren't you afraid to say this to Putin: "You are sick with spy mania"?

No, I'm not afraid, that's what I'm not afraid of, I'm not afraid. I decided for myself a long time ago that we will all be there, no longer at the age when you have to be afraid of something, it doesn’t matter when. On the contrary, it is even interesting to monitor the situation.

- To be convicted, to end up in a colony?

Well, I think it could be much worse here. For them, it is much more difficult, but also worse, to make a direct trial. It is more important for them to squeeze us out of the country, and even to a greater extent - to discredit that we are stealing the money of observers.

I do not know how vindictiveness goes to the extreme, anything can be. But it seems to me that they are following a different path, their path is discrediting. And for me it's scarier.